FHA Mortgage Expert - Tri-State Area - New Jersey/PA/Delaware

You're right. It's long! I have to read it again before I really comment.

KEN.... I figured it was long.  I have found many people don't like to read anything longer than 700 words. And I would usually do a 2 part blog... but how would you do this as a two part blog?  Besides, if it's that good of a blog, packed with good information or very thought provoking, why would one stop reading it or not read it at all?  Just curious...  thanks and looking forward to your honest opinion all of the time.

If we could just get government out of capitilism our system will flow beautifully, but that does not appear to stopping in the coming future.  The more the government jumps in....the more humans will take advantage of political moves.  We can blame lenders all day long, but when government creates an avenue......either a lender will go down it or their competitor will.  Thus, we are in a government created crises....AGAIN.

Just maybe in the coming years, America will get it and try to put a stop to it rather than find someone that is going to add to this continuing problem.  ....and again, maybe they wont.

Jeff,

As a real estate professional, when a buyer tells me they have been qualified up to 250K, I always ask them if the loan officer showed them a payment.  9 out of 10 times the answer is no.  I call the loan officer, get the payment and show it to the buyer of whom it will always be more than what they want to spend.  I then ask them what payment they will be comfortable with and then we have the loan officer figure it in reverse and give us a sales price - then we look for homes......You are doing a great job.

I always remind the buyer that neither myself, their lender nor their seller will ever make a payment for them and being qualified for a payment does not mean it fits in their own personal lifestyle budget. 

Wow what a typical inflamatory journalist!  I really think that finding out the payment that they are comfortable making every month for the next 30 years is essential.  That way you can make sure they know they cannot afford certain price ranges (that always look so much better) and stay within their comfort zone. It is the only way to inject reality into the decision process. The buyer needs to do examine budget and see if they can really handle it, and not depend on the raise or the bonus.  And the homeowners insurance and real property tax bill should be estimated higher since that is the direction they will certainly go.  I guess like you said they have contributed some good discussion, but they really took a cheap shot at you in order to get a little zinger in their story. A strong journalist would not have to rely on such tactics and would write a compelling stand alone story.

TIM.... . I am semi confused, because I don't see how your comment is relevant to this post. Your comment almost sounds like it belongs in my previous blog, about the 4.5% rate. Just my .02... thanks

JULIE.... . you make some very good points in your comment.  And it's funny yet sad... I have also found that many clients that I talk to who were told how much they could qualify were never told the payment or rate.... or sometimes both. And in many cases, were never given a good faith estimate.

Now, common sense says that you as the borrower should ask for these items when looking to buy a home. But you know what, for whatever reason, they just don't.  Maybe the loan officer is good at switching up the conversation to get them to forget about such important information?  Thanks for your input... it's right on.

MAGGIE.... . I totally agree, but I have been told differently by 2 loan officers today. But I also spoke to 25 others that thought differently. 4 of these people own their own mortgage companies. 5 others are actually managers with years of experience. My whole point???  Again, how can you not ask what payment they would be comfortable with, as your first question?   And you hit the nail on the head.. "reality" ....  which I think was one of the main reasons to why we are in the mess that we are in. How many 'pay later' commcericials do you see on tv?  Hey, buy now, pay later. And what happens if your financial status changes for the worst later?  rut row... then rut? thanks for your input.

MICHELLE.... .  I will comment to you in a single comment since you said made so many points and asked questions.

ok i'm slightly dizzy after reading that, but i would have stopped if it hadn't been a good post.

That's one of the first questions every lender should ask.  i'm not going to drill down the importance of the specific order of the question, but it's gotta be in the first minute or two of the interview. not only for the reasons you state, but also because people quite often have been looking at homes waaaaaayyy out of their price range.  In TX, taxes average over 2.5% per year, and insurance is the highest in the country.  people get pre-concieved ideas of the "payment" by using internet mortgage calculators that either grossly underestimate taxes and insurance or omit them altogether.

Alot of times, it boils down to context if you ask me.  that can be hard to discern sometimes.  You have to explain to people exactly why you are asking the questions or they can misinterpret your motive.  Asking what payment they are comfortable with is perfect.  I have a hard time getting people to disclose their assets sometimes because they think i'm pulling the "used car salesman" routine..."tell me how much money you've got so i can talk you into putting down more money", when in reality i'm looking for compensating factors to approve the loan and/or obtain an AU decision.  If they only realized that we make more money on higher loan amounts.....I'm sure there have been times where borrowers have unknowingly talked themselves out of a loan approval because they didn't disclose assets that might have helped them get approved.

I think this is a good topic.  In fact, this gives me an idea for another blog.  thanks Jeff

MICHELLE..... skimmed through my post?  You would think that you would have read every word, considering that you commented on my previous post and told me that I left out some key points. But the reality of it all, that blog was not about what you commented about.  And mocking me in this comment?  Okay... I'll play along.

Answers to your questions....  

1.  Do you realize that you don't have to say it all in one sentence?  Your title of the blog was "Mortgage Professional or Used Car Salesman? Why it pays to know the difference."   You then make this statement...  "When shopping for a mortgage loan to purchase or refinance a home, if the loan officer begins the application process asking  "What payment are you comfortable with?", don't walk away...  Run! " And then you mention my name and link my blog, that makes the same statement more than twice... "What payment are you comfortable with".

When you put it all together, you were either calling me a professional or a used car salesman. And from how you mentioned about me and my statements, your statements were not calling me a professional. So what is left then? In your blog, you are only comparing two of them. And tell everyone that nobody should start their interview with payments and what they would be comfortable with. Do me this favor, read all the comments in your post and in this one. I would find it very hard that the majority of people out there would be wrong in their comments. From what I read, over 95% of the people agree that payment should be asked first and made clear... and have the borrower acknowledge this.

2. yes, you did make a statement that you could ask this question, but later on in the process. But that doesn't make sense and I give plenty of reason to as why.  But again, you are missing the point. As a borrower, looking to us professionals for guideance, how can someone say, I want a $150,000 mortgage.  Right there, there are so many unanswered questions that haven't been asked to even make sure they know what they are talking about. You can work backwards once you know payment and what they have to work with. 

In regards to the 2nd part of the question... Please... but you are getting into something again, that is another topic by itself. And that is the different types of rates and mortgage porgrams. Again, you need to ask other questions before you should be giving any that information, giving rates. You are now showing me that you sell rate. You are know misleading the consumer about transparency.  You need to know what they have to work with, before you can dictate the types of rates and what might be good for them. You didn't bring this up when asking me this question. Again, maybe you should read my whole blog and my links. What questions that I ask. Then ask me these questions. And if you could do me a favor, why not write a post on the top 6 questions that you ask?? Let's put it out there.

3. Very simple as I explained to a few loan officers today. I make sure that they understand this....  and not just once. I go over examples and reasons to what they need to be aware of. And I could give you a client in CT that I just went through this with and they will explain to you on how I handled this.  Besides, you still don't get that blog that you are referencing to. They were comfortable with the payment. They went over the amount that I qualified them for. When I gave them the new payment, it was something that they could handle. Besides, I even said this in that blog, that there were other issues or circumstances that are unknown to the reader to make an accurate assesment of my story. You fail to understand, asking the appropriate questions, to see the whole picture. There was another household income that could not be used because of poor credit. So, trying to discredit me with examples that don't apply to my main statement, that payment should be talked about first, confuses me.

4. Here is what you said in number 4... "I'll repeat part of my comment that I wrote on your other blog which you deleted.  That post was not at all about  "why lowering rates could hurt our economy". "

Yes, I deleted your comment which I never do, because you came in and said that I threatened you in an e-mail. But why get into that. It goes to perception. I went back and read that comment, because I saved it Michelle...  you didn't say in your comment that my post was not at all about lowering rates could hurt our economy.  Please go back and read all the comments again. From what I can remember, about 75% of the comments mentioned this or agreed with this.. or one way or another, that the govn't needs to stop meddling in the mortgage industry. Again, not sure what you read.

If you remember my blog?  I stated, yes, the payment being lowered by $111 could help some, but it's not the end to all. It won't save you more than you think. $111 can go just like that. If you have a family and kids... poof..  a blink of the eye and it's gone. Something happens within the house... poof. Something breaks down on your car, poof. Not sure why you are the only one that I seem to have to spell all of this out to you. You do remind me of myself that I like a agood argument... that I love to debate. But again, you seem to be about the only one that keeps missing my points that I address in my posts. Is it because you just want to bring me down?  Have it in for me, that your mind is clouded, that you just lunge out at me, and think later?  Again, just curious.. and yes, you do make a few good points in your blog about how savings can be beneficial. But if you read my blog again and stop trying to take 2 sentences and get a different meaning out of it?  Look at the whole picture in what I am trying to explain. I am trying to make a point about 'payment' and how we need to evaluate and not misinform or mislead others about how they should see payment.

And I still disagree on how you share with people on paying down their mortgage quicker with that savings. Ask most financial experts... and some very good loan officers.. that is not the best way to go about it.

Your summary.... this has nothing to do with my points, or the amount of my associates. And being a smart ass in this case won't win any points with me or to many others. Telling me the first question should be, "how may I help you?"  Yes, that is actually a question and should be asked and would be first, but you damn well knew what I meant. Besides, I could show you many times that question won't always be asked, depending on how you start the conversation. My ego?  Sure, I have a small one, because of what I have written. Does Terrell Owens have an ego?  Yes... but is he also considered one of the best receivers?  YES.  But trying to make me look bad, mock me in some instances???  Yes, I am not a politician and don't play the politician role, to where I don't always come across politically correct.  Shoot me... I get my point across by not beating around the bush... or misleading or misinforming the public. I go straight to the point. But please read my other blogs and feel free to keep trying to bring me down, trying to make me look bad. The only way I look bad is when I respond to people like yourself, to where it seems to get a little nasty. Or that I leave a stern comment in a post that I don't argee with.

Lastly... and I still will ask you until you answer this...  besides that question, how can I help you. What is your first question?  Or in your case, your second question?  Again, if I ask a question, try to be real about it. At this point, I still don't know how you interview someone.  Now how can someone debate or argue someone else's point without telling that author on how they do things???

JOHN..... .  so, you are dizzy?  lol   Hey, you make some excellent points.  My post was way to long to begin with... but a great point to make... TAXES... taxes are sometimes different on the same purchase prices. One house at $250,000 could be $5,000 a year and another property at $250,000 could have taxes of $6,000. That is a difference of $84 a month, which could be huge. Hence why payment is extremely important. You need to break down and explain to the consumer... hey, I am using these taxes and homeowners...  we need to keep an eye on this. It could lower or raise your purchase price, depending on the difference. The two people that have argued with me that payment shouldn't be asked first, never really bring this issue up at all... so thanks.  Because I always stress this when giving them the GFE.

In regards to your assets issue?  To me, it's very simple... I don't have to tell people anymore that I might ask some questions that may seem very personal to them, that it might not be any of my business. I say this to them.. my next question is going to be a 2 part question for reasons that I will explain after I ask the question. How much money do you have, liquid, between your checking, savings, 401-k, stock options, etc etc...  and of this, how much do you want to use, feel comfortable about using. And don't tell me zero... lol  Then I will explain to them why I asked this as a two part question.

Overall, I think this is a very good topic...  so I thank you for that compliment. And from an specific answer to this, it shows that some people go a different route. But I truly think that was part of what got us into this mess. Giving the consumer bigger buying power, because they fell in love with a bigger house... but didn't really talk it out with someone that it could be to much. They weren't asked to think about it. And you need time to think about it...  thanks

PS... here is a blog that I wrote about in regards to : payment vs rate

Jeff, I'm not a lender, so I don't ask that at all. But, I do ask the buyers first off, have you spoken to a lender to find out what you are comfortable purchasing and what your payment would be?

This debate is interesting because it appears it is just two different people asking the same question at different times in the process. We all can make a cake but every cook will tell you we all do it different.

MISSY..... . yes, words of wisdom. Yes, two different people asking at different times. But here is my issue and problem. It's how she is informing consumers that if a loan officer asks this question as their first question, that they should not walk, but run away from that loan officer. OUCH...

And another scary thing,... she still hasn't been able to tell me what her true first question is. She did mention, how much of a house are you looking for. And personally & professionally... if you had to ask my question or her question first, it should be the payment question. It's more on point... more realistic. My years of experience is that so many think they want that bigger house, until you tell them the payment.

And then it just gets worse because Michelle then drags into the conversation... would I give the lower rate to the consumer, etc etc... Again, you need to ask some important questions first, before I could answer that question. Which sorry to say, makes me believe that she doesn't ask the right questions and pushes the wrong ones. Just my assumption, but I am usually very good with those.

Overall... I have always been taught when debating and trying to make your point...  if you disagree with someone or something, you need to spell out in the first paragprah what you would do opposite of that person. She clearly doesn't do this. She shoots me down, but doesn't have a clear message of how she handles her client, which makes it even worse and childish in my opinion. We are suppose to be professionals.  But then again, many people don't know how to debate properly. It becomse a shouting match, which I got dragged into. But it's a fight that I can handle because of knowledge and common sense. thanks for your input..

 PS... and if you are actually debating someone.. to come into the post and say that you skimmed the post????  How can you properly argue anything at all then?  It's bad enough when someone reads the whole post and still misses the message or meaning. What happens if she missed some key points that I made... but she still has the coconuts to tell me that I am wrong, to debate me, and argue with me..  sorry, but that answer in itself scares me. Just my .02.

Dude...I try to read most of your posts.  This one has taken on the form of a Brittanica exerpt.  Not that I don't mind.  I did read it.  I think that you're right with your comments here.  I hate to say it, but it really comes down to success and experience.  The more experience and successful a loan officer is in their career the more likely it is that they've figured out how to communicate with borrowers and therefore guage the most important questions to ask.  Even when a borrower says $1,000 or $1,100 is the most that I want to go, they shouldn't stop there.  What if the LO put them in a neg am, MTA or COFI.  Like you, my desire is to be the best in the business.  That means that my client's needs come before my own.  Actually my clients' needs serve my own.  Because by serving my clients, I serve myself.  Relational or transactional (I know I'm digressing), but relational selling means that you want more deals from that person through their own opportunities and the ones that they can refer to me.  Yes....you're opening question is just fine....and yes there's so much more as well.   Just my .02.

Jeff, your critic is operating on the assumption that you only want to know their max payment so you can profit from that info by charging them the highest interest rate, and thereby receive the highest possible commission. Since that's not how you work, just let it go - you can't please everyone...

Jeff, Ouch is right!  I didn't "skin" your post, I READ your post--and if this person disagrees with you there are more PROFESSIONAL ways to do it.  I have been reading your posts almost since I signed onto AR and you are honest, professional and truly dedicated to your clients. There are always people around to criticize--I've leaned to let it go.  And I admire your dedication to what you do.

Jeff: Since used car salesman presumably are trusted more than mortgage professionals these days, you should be flattered! Just kidding! Enjoy your day!

Jeff, it took me three tries just to get to the end of the comments, but I'm glad I waited that long because Larry summed it up so well. If we are still in the business with the market in its current state, I think it safe to say we are the lenders that do care (for the most part). We are the lenders that do get referrals from past customers, because we have proven our desire to fight for our customers best interests.

You are absolutely right that by interviewing the customer effectively we gather the info needed to do right by them. The determination of what they can afford is CRITICAL to that end. Truth is I think no one disagrees with you.

Michelle- I must say however that I as well take offense with the opening of your post. It paints me as a "bad lender" to any consumer who would read it because I do ask them "how much do you feel you can afford". Although I don't think you are really trying to make that point, you have. We can be salespeople and take advantage of the information our customers entrust us with or we can be counselors and help them make the best decisions for their interests (no I'm not trying to imply that salespeople are evil!). Either way we need to know the answers to critical questions regarding their finances. How much they can afford to pay is integral to that end.

Gerry Suarez, Jr.

Your FHA Loan Pro!

Wowser!  My eyes are sore from this post and thread.

I'm not quite sure why this discussion has gotten a bit heated, but passionate people tend to travel that road at times.

I will keep this very simple for Professionals & Consumers alike.  I'm a big believer (and have written about it on numerous occasions) in the Sleep Principal.  Having a housing payment that is well within the confines of affordability so one can sleep well and peacefully at night.  Price range, interest rates, employment & income stability all factor into that.  In fact, there's numerous variables that come into play.  While we all have different methods of interviewing clients, the bottom line is making sure they come out of the transaction financially better off.  Real Estate should be a win-win and as long as that is happening, you are doing something right.  Addressing payment affordability is a integral part of the equation, at least in the book I'm writing.  That's my .69 cents:)

Michelle, a customer doesn't know; however your post conveys the sense that if you are asked that question then your loan officer is out to get you. That's why I take offense to it.

Said another way, would you say it's safe to assume if a loan officer asks you for your social security number that they intend to pull your credit? The answer most times would surely be yes, however I often do ask for socials and don't pull credit. Especially in the case where a customer can supply a recent report from another source indicating their clear inability to buy at that time. If I make the statement "Social security number equals credit report" then I paint with too broad a brush and misrepresent fact. I trust you see the similarities.

Consumers need to look at many factors when deciding on their lender. At the risk of painting with too broad a brush I'd say beware those who ask few questions most! :-)))

Gerry Suarez, Jr.

Your FHA Loan Pro!

I wasn't going to comment, I really wasn't. Anybody who knows me knows I love a good debate but I usually try to stay above the fray in a public forum like this. I don't think anyone garners much business from bickering with colleagues publicly. That said, I just can't keep my mouth shut.

There are a number of issues addressed in the referrence posts. Are lower rates better? Even if they come at the cost of tax payer dollars? Even if they artificially inflate the market? How do we as lenders interview our clients? At what point in an interview do you discuss payment? When do you discuss your fees as they relate to what the borrower is trying to accomplish? If borrowers are saving money in payment, what will they or should they do with it? Does it make a difference if it is subsidized? Those are all valid points of debate amongst industry professionals. I would venture to say that a number of us have different opinions on all of the above. I'd be willing to debate with anyone on any of those topics.

There is a troubling other thing that is going on. I'll politely call it a personality conflict. Maybe this is just arguing semantics, maybe it is people in the same state, in the same business vying for market share but I think once it gets to one person mentioning another by name in a post negatively it has gone too far for my tastes. I'd like to be left out of that. Play nice in the sand box, nobody likes a bully or a snitch. Thank you.

LARRY.... .  I truly think the same, especially in today's market, that it comes down to experience and success. Those that just throw mindless comments into the wind, just make us look worse overall. In my opinion and from what I have learned, there are ways to debate and argue. But attacking someones character, now I feel that this is a political campaign.. lol  And when someone doesn't answer the one main question and keeps eluding it?  It makes you wonder their agenda. But it's crystal clear with many of us.

What's sad is that yes, payment is very important. As Missy stated, so what if it's asked later. But to tell people blatantly that if it is asked first, that you need to run away from that person has to be one of the worst reponses that I have ever heard in my 16 yr career. And I would love to take this up with a panel of financial experts on Wall Street and talk shows. I would know about 95% of their answers.

In any case, payment is important and knowing what they are comfortable upfront makes all the sense in the world. It then allows you to conduct the rest of your interview...  because you need to know taxes and HO.  You need to know how much cash that they have to work with... you need to know credit and income. You back stuff into a payment, but you can't back payment into the rest of the equation.

TIM..... . BINGO... and that is her selling tool, on how to sell against me. Wow, I bet if I just wrote that sentence as my blog, that might have gotten the point across and saved so many people some watery eyes from reading 1,500 words... lol   It comes down to this person selling rate then. But in order to sell rate, you need all the questions answered to what I just wrote to Larry above you...  thanks for your input.

CAROLE.... .  thanks... lol... I don't know how you can professional debate or argue with someone if you just skim their stuff.  Overall, I truly appreciate the kind words and compliments...

PAUL.... . funny... I guess maybe they moved up on the least trusted ladder.. well, in that case, moved down...

GERRY..... .   I agree in most cases, but I know of a few loan officers that have a spouse that makes great income or that that person came into some money and that they will be able to ride out this poor market just on that, with no business. So it's scary in a few ways.

You hit a nail on the head by stating that we need to interview the consumer effectively. Many loan officers don't.  They sell rate and talk about other loans on how bad they are and how you need to be careful of them. That is all they sell... and in my opinion, that is the worst kind of loan officer to deal with.

And lastly, you are absolutely correct... it paints a bad picture to tell people that if we ask about their payment in the first question, that we are essentially evil. In my opinion, that is a sad and disturbing opening remark to any consumer that has no clue and who needs our best interests in caring for their best interests.

JASON.... .  yes, passion brings heat. And in some cases, rage brings heat, when you are trying to bring someone down. There is a difference.  And yes, we do have different methods of interviewing... but if you are asking about payment half way through, I think you have down a disservice to that borrower.  We need to educate the borrower and walk them through it properly.

GERRY.... .  exactly, beware of the loan officer that asks very few questions. I stated this in my blog that I wrote about in regards to my top 6 mortgage questions when interviewing a potential client. And I even put this in my red flags post...  Red Flags !!!

Welcome to ActivePain. Jeff, I think we are stuck on a matter of principles here. I would agree the author should not be advising people to "run" if a loan officer asks what monthly payment the borrower may be comfortable with -that is simply not the case. In fact every lender and insurer, including FHA, takes payment affordability into consideration. On the other hand, as you well know and have indicated, payment is not the only consideration although it is a huge consideration. In an effort to be accurate I interviewed my remaining staff to see how many ask about payment and the one who consistently does is the most experienced (25 years) and most well trained: Wachovia, Countrywide, Bank of America and, of course, Novation.

I will also say that the first question I get from most buyers, "What are ya'lls's's (that's southern for 'your') rates?" are vastly more dangerous than the question, "What monthly payment would you be comfortable with?" You know, with more experienced buyers and borrowers payment becomes quite the point of interest. Borrowers refinancing from a 30 to a 15 are almost always concerned more with the payment. Buyer's who are buying what will probably be their last home are often concerned with the payment. First time home buyers are completely lost until you hit them with a dose of reality and ask, "how much have you budgeted for your home payment?"

My first question, "What is your name please? And your phone number in case we are disconnected? And how did you hear about us? Now, how may I serve you today?"

If serving means meeting a payment criteria I will do my best to serve while remaining ethical on the back end. If I ask, "what payment did you have in mind" and the borrower runs from me they have just run from one of the most ethical people in the business. So, the advice the author gave was bad advice -if that's the real point of all this.

Payment? That is the number one thing my borrowers ask about.

I guess I should go back to selling used tractors at my Tractors & Fish Bait shop...... Since I must be doing it all wrong. LOL

Jeff, this looks like this a blatant attack with lack of experience in my opinion. 

Jeff helped me to buy our next home in Florida. We settled back in September 2008 and I still follow his blogs from time to time, because I feel that he is in the top of his class per se.  I had started with 2 local loan officers that both screened me at first. They hardly talked about payment. They were more interested in talking about rate. My very first house I bought in 1997, the loan officer changed my rate. All of that rate stuff that he promised went right out the window.

All I can say is that we haven't had many good experiences in general. Even though at first our fear was that Jeff was in NJ and not in Florida. Well, he proved us wrong. He talked to us about payment, got us to understand our goals, and help to make the process very smooth.

Something else that I would like to point out. I went over to this other person's blog, Michelle's blog, and saw how she explained that 99% of all clients don't have an idea in what kind of payment that they would be comfortable with.  Then you must be dealing with buyers that aren't serious. I would say that it would more be like 5% of all buyers would not have an idea. I could go on, but I would like to ask Michelle one question then.  Do you just put your client into a home that they can get approved for, and not explain the difference about payment approved for and a realistic payment? Sounds liked you sell rate and beat up payment. In my opinion from reading all of this, sounds like you educate the consumer your way and take them down the wrong path. From our experience, this happened to us a few times, based on your argument Michelle.  Just my humble opinion.  Just a fyi, I do title work for a living, so I hear about it all of the time. We need more Jeff Belongers in the mortgage business.   Lori

How do I keep getting logged out?

I didn't mean for the post above to be anon

KEN..... principles?  possibly... and as I have stated, I don't mind opinions. But when you blatantly tell people that people should run... sounds like the person that this is coming from is actually the used car sales person. It would be like telling the client... oh no, you don't want to go down to that Cadillac dealership. They paint their cars to look shiny and new, but they have dead horses under the engine. The tires are fake rubber. How about telling me what I can do for you and not what my competition will do or won't do.

I am glad that you interviewed your staff... I did the same. I also interviewed other loan officers in our corporate office and other loan officers on the networking sites. So far, I have only found two that totally disagree about asking about payment up front. Sure, several said it could be asked a few questions down the road... but most, 98% said that you should still ask this question in the first 5 minutes. Which makes my point for me... it comes down to educating the consumer... it comes down to understanding their needs. You don't ask the basic question of... "what are your needs".. or "what do you want"... in my opinion, those are open ended questions that might never get you to payment, hence why you specifically need to ask about payment. Anything else is an assumption..  Rut Row...

In regards to the rate issue.. BINGO...  a very dangerous question when people ask first, what is your rate.  Gee, from 5% to 10%... I need more info. But these loan officers that don't stop the borrower at the door on this issue, they are just as bad as the borrower asking it.  There are way to many unknowns and you need to take the steps to find out more about the consumer.

In ending, as you stated a little... you can't tell a borrower how to get a better rate, buy buying points, until you actually know their finances. I would bet the same loan officers that don't think payment is a big deal, are the same ones that entertain the interest rate calls and never get to the meat of the topic, explaining to them that we need more info before we even quote anything.

In regards to your questions... funny. I have been waiting for more to chime in about this. But anyone with common sense knows what I was getting at, and not about the basic questions, which would be like the pre-interview stages... lol  Sad.. yes, that is extremely bad advice if a loan officer is telling someone to run away. They talk about the value of money, but they bring no value to the table.  thanks for your input and feedback...

UNKNOWN.... aka, this is Tom Burris, per his comment below...did you sell used tractors?  lol  Seriously though, I talk to about 4 clients a month that have spoken to a loan officer previously to me and when I ask them what payment they were given, they don't know. They say that they were never told one.  Yes, the borrower should be asking anyhow, but can we blame them 100%? I blame the loan officer in most cases, because they should be stressing this point. But so many people get caught up in rate and the loan officer allows that. They should not be in the business... point blank.

LORI...... hey you.  Wow, thanks for following my blogs still. How are the kids. I owe you all a phone call anyhow in regards to a FHA streamline. I sent you an e-mail last week, Friday, but will follow up with you later tonight.

In regards to your comment... wow, I thought it was going to be as long as my blog. And I still remember your situations and what you previously went through. Yes, many people don't really talk about payment, even if they bring it up later. Some loan officers use this to their advantage, hoping that you buy as much as you can, being approved. We make our profit off of your loan amount, not the purchase price. So sometimes they want you to get happy and buy higher, even though you might not feel comfortable. And once you start looking at more expensive homes, it's harder for you to turn back.

Lastly... in regards to that other person blog and her comments. Hey, some people just have a different way to sell. And at times, they need to try and make people look bad, just as when politicians do those tv commercials. They need to put bad thoughts into peoples heads, in hopes of turning their vote. Same thing here. I am use to it.. I know that I look after my clients best interest. And yes, I would agree 110% that most people actually have an idea what payment they are comfortable with. Just as Ken Cook above you had mentioned. To publicly say that 99% don't know what they want?  lol  You don't know until you ask them, right?  Hey, thanks for stopping by and talk soon.

TOM B. .....  you have a habbit in doing that... lol   Get it together... 

I like to ask clients, especially first time home buyers have not identified the home they purchase:

1) what monthly mortgage payment would you be comfortable with?

2) what price range are you considering?

3) how much are you planning on using for down payment and closing costs?

Actually...the interview is much longer--but payment is probably one of the first.  It helps with setting boundaries for the LO to follow.  Someone is indicating what their comfort zone is and it should be respected.   It's just the basics...I'm not sure why anyone would have an issue with you discussing that, Jeff.

RHONDA....  .  good to see you.  I guess this whole topic is like beating a dead horse. Yes, many of us have different ways to sell. But the main point that is the key topic is payment and understanding what your client wants. They usually have an idea. To say that they don't most of the time?  Just shows me that loan officer hasn't been around a while or has done enough business.

You basically laid out the top 3 to 4 questions that should be asked in the first 5 minutes. To tell the consumer to run from a LO that asks payment in the first question?  Sad...  that person has no clue and I will say that all day. Michelle says that the avg consumer doesn't know what they want...  but you are suppose to ask other questions outside of payment?  And to address the fact, asking me if I will give them the lower rate?  You need to address assets before you do this. Again, she is trying to make a name for herself with backwards attacks.  Comments that are reversed... trying to confuse the consumer, thinking that she has their best interest at hand, telling them that I am going to charge more. That's what good faiths are for. Besides, these are the same loan officers that try to sell against YSP and SRP... lol   Again, adding confusion to the borrower. It goes back to a rate selling...  an app. taker.

Overall, most of the people that seem to be on the same page in this thread all have 10 plus years in this business. This is one time that experience does rule. Those lacking the experience and knowledge just attack blindly in the dark.  It's like being at a skeet shoot, firing at 1 inch discs... which would be just about impossible to hit. We have these so-called loan officers that think taking cheap shots at the knowledgeable loan officer will gain them recognition. When in reality, it will hurt them overall.   thanks for your feedback, input, and excellent insight into the whole payment thing and how you as a loan officer should add value to the consumer...

what a total disappointment - I can not believe that the comments and blogs going on about this topic - I must not go back to Fred's Blog - I did not see the underlying message.... I will never read the blog by Above All Financial Services - I am disappointed in the fact that all of this is out there for the public to see and see the bad blood between professionals -in this market I would hope that people would worry more about their reputation.

I do not think all of us realize how childish this all sounds - we all know that what a buyer is comfortable is key - and to loose sleep or to loose integrity over this is about the stupidest play I have seen from any of you.

Seriously?!  You're both in a timeout.

LMAO @ Matt.

I've got twenty bucks that they will exchange Christmas Cards;)

Sardi- I'll take that action;-)